I saw this live, and Pelosi continued to stare at the congressman for several more minutes; she even pulled up a floor-plan of the house to find out who it was.
I think she was going to hire a hit-team.
Congressman Wilson (R-SC), the man who was brave enough to speak up against Imperator Obama, has since apologized. Wimp.
Addendum: Note Biden's sad, disappointed face at the end of the clip.
Personally, I think Congressman Wilson went a bit overboard. How utterly rude- calling the President a liar, right in the middle of a speech. He could have restrained himself and used a bit more tact and grace. I admire the President for the way he handled the situation.
It is even less tactful when we consider that, in fact, President Obama was quite correct: Pg 143, Section 246 of HR 3200- "SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
Why should a congressman use "tact and grace" when the man is destroying our country?
"Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
And employers can't hire illegals.
And illegals can't get hunting, fishing, or driver's licenses.
And, what's stopping them from redefining an "undocumented alien"?
Do you have proof that he will 'redefine' what an undocumented worker is? As far as I know, an undocumented worker is still one that came here without documentation- in other words, illegally.
I will agree that yes, Obama has lied in some cases. Yes, he is taking our country even further into ruin. But he is not the only one at fault. And he was not lying about this issue.
Regardless of whether we agree with him or no, he is still our President. He still holds the office of President. He has been duly elected into that office. As such, he should be afforded all the respect due to the office and the man. That does not include calling him a liar over something he was not lying about.
I do not agree with everything he said in his speech. I think he is overstepping his Constitutional bounds by trying to set policy. I think he has done much that is wrong and unconstitutional. But he was not lying about this issue, and we cannot say he was.
I am not saying there will not be abuses of the system in the healthcare bill. I am not saying I agree 100% with everything in the bill. But it is a truth that the bill does not guarantee coverage to illegals. Period. It explicitly states that illegals will not get (legal) coverage under this plan.
President Obama is still our President. He was duly elected by a majority of the US citizenry. He may or may not be Constitutional; the point is moot, really, as he is still in office, and removing him from office at this point would create a great deal of turmoil and division in the US- something we definitely do not need more of.
Hence, he is the President, and as such we should still afford him the respect due to the office and the man himself.
Besides that, the point is still moot. The bill does not have provisions for illegals to take advantage of the health care options; quite the opposite. It may be unconstitutional (a point that has not yet been established with any certainty by anyone to my knowledge), but I still admire President Obama's desire to do something about our healthcare problems, which are very real.
All in all, I think Congressman Wilson went way over the top, accused Obama in an ad hominem attack of something that is not true, and never has been, and quite rightly apologized.
But I doubt anyone, let alone 'illegals', will be covered by this 'reform'. All will be subject to the whims of whoever oversees the inevitable rationing.
Layers upon layers upon layers. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
The availability of public health insurance to illegal aliens may be a silly issue to debate. I can't fathom why people who get free (to them) health care would need insurance in the first place.
Someone needed to stand up to him! If that man didn't yell out, someone else eventually would have. Maybe not during that meeting, but I'm sure B. O. will get many more yellings in the next four years.
The Congressional Research Office has provided analysis on HR3200…
In its subsection on health insurance subsidies (known as “affordability credits”), HR 3200 does state, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” That would seem to solve the problem, but it’s more rhetoric than reality. The bill contains no verification requirement or enforcement process for citizenship or legal residency, as exists for other federal benefit programs. The only verification required for the subsidies pertains to family income. Beyond that, as the CRS report notes, everything is left in the hands of the Health Choices Commissioner.
House Democrats defeated all attempts in committee to add an enforcement mechanism that would require proof of citizenship or legal residency for those getting subsidies.
Liberty, in respecting Obama, I would be disrespecting the founders, the Constitution, and, most importantly, God.
The arguments for or against the bill are moot, as the entire bill is illegal.
"It may be unconstitutional (a point that has not yet been established with any certainty by anyone to my knowledge)..."
I'm rather surprised you didn't make this connection, but the Constitution all-inclusively lists the powers of the federal government... medicine is not among those powers.
Therefore, this bill is absolutely unconstitutional, thus illegal.
I, again, will not legitimize this illegal legislation by arguing the merits or demerits of it, nor its provisions.
Since, though, this post was about a brave congressman who blasphemed "His Majesty", I will argue this much:
As RighKlik correctly stated, there is no way to verify citizenship, thus mooting section 246.
As AdamS pointed out, the President is currently formulating plans to legalize otherwise illegal immigrants.
And as I pointed out, there exist laws which prohibit illegals from employment, hunting, fishing, and driving, yet I have personally witnessed all of the above being done by illegals.
Counterfeiting documentation is rampant.
But, this would all be moot if the government would merely end its unconstitutional reign of terror, which began even earlier than '84, and legalize the Constitution again.
It does and it doesn't matter if Mexicans get Obamacare, as it is illegal in the first place.
Illegals, demonstrably, can get Obamacare. And Obamacare, demostrably, is unconstitutional.
Kinda funny, my dad and I were watching it, the commotion occurred, and approximately thirty seconds later, my brother called to tell us to put to the news, because people are yelling at the President!
I would say that we should respect Obama as the leader that God set up, but that doesn't mean that we sit down and say nothing while he tears the country apart.
RightKlik- I have had that pointed out to me since my above comments. :) But thanks anyway.
Son- I think that, pertaining to the 'graceful dissent' issue- yelling and namecalling will accomplish nothing. Yelling 'You lie!" at the President does nothing than make you look like an idiot five-year old who can't keep his big yap shut during a presidential speech. Yes, perhaps Obama was fudging. But that does not give us leave to call him names, and depart from common human decency and courtesy.
I totally agree that some of the things Obama has done are inherently unconstitutional and this bill probably does, too. But does that give us leave to treat him in a way that will, instead of making HIM look bad, make us look like a bunch of loonies?!
The way to achieve our goal is not through mindless, senseless namecalling and accusations. It is through earnest, factual debate. Yelling "You lie!" gained nothing fo Congressman Wilson. If instead he had waited for the media to come, he could have voiced his opinion in a much more civilized and open way, and would have gained more.
There is much too much vitriol going on in the political atmosphere nowadays. We don't need more. The way to get our point across is not by lambasting the administration anytime we can. The administration has done some good things. We shouldn't be so eager to jump all over them. It makes us look like bandwagon-jumpers with the intellectual faculties of childish lemmings.
The solution is not through refusing to treat this administration as an administration. They are in power, and they have power. Ignoring them and calling them names will do nothing except make them declare you an irritant and- guess what- ignore you.
I understand that the Constitution is the ultimate law of our land. But throwing temper tantrums is not the way to get us back to the Constitution. The way to do that is by getting the word out there about the Constitution, seeing it multiply, and then kicking these people out come '12. That is the solution, not yelling insults at the President of the United States.
Quiet, peaceful, kind, tactful, graceful discussion is not going to get anything done; the last 250 years of American history shows this.
Unfortunately, calling our congressmen doesn't work anymore, nor "kicking them out" in elections.
Thinking back to the Boston Tea Party, we didn't stand next to the cargo ship with holding signs, quietly, and tactfully, discussing our problems with the English.
It was a rather vitriolic act, as I recall it!
We have reached a point in the course of human events when discussion will only serve to show that the American people don't care enough to act on the Constitution.
Saying "you lie" to a man whose least of many offenses is a lying tongue isn't a "temper tantrum".
Vitriol is an American tradition.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force."
~Patrick Henry
Doesn't sound like the Founders would be pleased with how much we've put up with, only to attack men who call tyrants "liars".
"No respect to a man who would tear down a system of government which God set up, wouldn't you say?" That would be true, but didn't God put Obama where he is now? (Not to say that I like him, I don't.)
Ok, I was talking to Mom, and she made a comment I thought I'd post here. I told her about the video, and she was like "Well someone needed to yell at him! We should be more like the English Parliament where people can just stand up and scream at each other." :) Thought that was a good thought. There is a time to sit down and shut up and there is a time to stand up and shout. I think that time is here.
Whether he's Constitutional or not is NOT a "moot" point. If he violates the Constitution, he is a usurper and a tyrant, and does NOT deserve our respect, or our obedience!! I will respect the office, UNLESS, the man holding it is illegitimately holding it. He has violated the Constitution and has not provided proof that he is a Citizen of These United States! How can you respect that?! Saying that he's lying is not disrespectful or namecalling, but the TRUTH!!! I come from a backround where "diplomacy bows to honesty!" (To quote Bill Mauldin). And you are calling a lot of names yourself. "idiot five-year old" "bandwagon-jumpers with the intellectual faculties of childish lemmings." Rebecca, Rebecca's mom, AdamS, RightKlik, CarolineNot, Dr. Paleo Phd., and of course Son3, GREAT WORK!!!! KEEP IT UP!!!!!
Well, thanks for the comment, Johann, but Liberty is one of my Peeps; I happen to know that she isn't trying to subvert the Constitution or disrespect our country's founders... the last several comments notwithstanding.
(Sorry, Liberty. :D)
I would not that there be contention or strife among my Peeps, so let's remember to be courteous, not curt.
Please pardon me, Liberty and Son3. I'll be more courteous in the future. Thanks for the rebuke. BTW, RGM's email doesn't work. I tried twice, and it got bounced back both times. Do you have an alternate address?
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27 comments:
Personally, I think Congressman Wilson went a bit overboard. How utterly rude- calling the President a liar, right in the middle of a speech. He could have restrained himself and used a bit more tact and grace. I admire the President for the way he handled the situation.
It is even less tactful when we consider that, in fact, President Obama was quite correct:
Pg 143, Section 246 of HR 3200-
"SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
I disagree.
Why should a congressman use "tact and grace" when the man is destroying our country?
"Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
And employers can't hire illegals.
And illegals can't get hunting, fishing, or driver's licenses.
And, what's stopping them from redefining an "undocumented alien"?
The President is a liar.
Do you have proof that he will 'redefine' what an undocumented worker is? As far as I know, an undocumented worker is still one that came here without documentation- in other words, illegally.
I will agree that yes, Obama has lied in some cases. Yes, he is taking our country even further into ruin. But he is not the only one at fault. And he was not lying about this issue.
Regardless of whether we agree with him or no, he is still our President. He still holds the office of President. He has been duly elected into that office. As such, he should be afforded all the respect due to the office and the man. That does not include calling him a liar over something he was not lying about.
I do not agree with everything he said in his speech. I think he is overstepping his Constitutional bounds by trying to set policy. I think he has done much that is wrong and unconstitutional. But he was not lying about this issue, and we cannot say he was.
I am not saying there will not be abuses of the system in the healthcare bill. I am not saying I agree 100% with everything in the bill. But it is a truth that the bill does not guarantee coverage to illegals. Period. It explicitly states that illegals will not get (legal) coverage under this plan.
I give him the respect a usurper deserves.
He is not my President, and I do not consider him eligible to legitimately hold the office.
I care not one iota what the bill says it will or will not do, it is an illegal and tyrannical bill, and I will not legitimize it.
President Obama is still our President. He was duly elected by a majority of the US citizenry. He may or may not be Constitutional; the point is moot, really, as he is still in office, and removing him from office at this point would create a great deal of turmoil and division in the US- something we definitely do not need more of.
Hence, he is the President, and as such we should still afford him the respect due to the office and the man himself.
Besides that, the point is still moot. The bill does not have provisions for illegals to take advantage of the health care options; quite the opposite. It may be unconstitutional (a point that has not yet been established with any certainty by anyone to my knowledge), but I still admire President Obama's desire to do something about our healthcare problems, which are very real.
All in all, I think Congressman Wilson went way over the top, accused Obama in an ad hominem attack of something that is not true, and never has been, and quite rightly apologized.
Since when was America invaded by aliens? :D
But I doubt anyone, let alone 'illegals', will be covered by this 'reform'. All will be subject to the whims of whoever oversees the inevitable rationing.
Layers upon layers upon layers.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
The availability of public health insurance to illegal aliens may be a silly issue to debate. I can't fathom why people who get free (to them) health care would need insurance in the first place.
What a head-scratcher. Ü
Someone needed to stand up to him! If that man didn't yell out, someone else eventually would have.
Maybe not during that meeting, but I'm sure B. O. will get many more yellings in the next four years.
Liberty: Time to do some homework
The Congressional Research Office has provided analysis on HR3200…
In its subsection on health insurance subsidies (known as “affordability credits”), HR 3200 does state, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” That would seem to solve the problem, but it’s more rhetoric than reality. The bill contains no verification requirement or enforcement process for citizenship or legal residency, as exists for other federal benefit programs. The only verification required for the subsidies pertains to family income. Beyond that, as the CRS report notes, everything is left in the hands of the Health Choices Commissioner.
House Democrats defeated all attempts in committee to add an enforcement mechanism that would require proof of citizenship or legal residency for those getting subsidies.
Son3: I agree with your sentiments. The time for being polite is over.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-wont-give-federal-insurance-benefits-to-illegal-aliens-hell-make-them-legal-first/
Liberty, in respecting Obama, I would be disrespecting the founders, the Constitution, and, most importantly, God.
The arguments for or against the bill are moot, as the entire bill is illegal.
"It may be unconstitutional (a point that has not yet been established with any certainty by anyone to my knowledge)..."
I'm rather surprised you didn't make this connection, but the Constitution all-inclusively lists the powers of the federal government... medicine is not among those powers.
Therefore, this bill is absolutely unconstitutional, thus illegal.
I, again, will not legitimize this illegal legislation by arguing the merits or demerits of it, nor its provisions.
Since, though, this post was about a brave congressman who blasphemed "His Majesty", I will argue this much:
As RighKlik correctly stated, there is no way to verify citizenship, thus mooting section 246.
As AdamS pointed out, the President is currently formulating plans to legalize otherwise illegal immigrants.
And as I pointed out, there exist laws which prohibit illegals from employment, hunting, fishing, and driving, yet I have personally witnessed all of the above being done by illegals.
Counterfeiting documentation is rampant.
But, this would all be moot if the government would merely end its unconstitutional reign of terror, which began even earlier than '84, and legalize the Constitution again.
It does and it doesn't matter if Mexicans get Obamacare, as it is illegal in the first place.
Illegals, demonstrably, can get Obamacare. And Obamacare, demostrably, is unconstitutional.
Rebecca, so true!
I saw this live too, but must've missed the "You lie!" because I didn't hear it. Darn!!
Spencer
Tsk.
Kinda funny, my dad and I were watching it, the commotion occurred, and approximately thirty seconds later, my brother called to tell us to put to the news, because people are yelling at the President!
Sorry you missed it.
I would say that we should respect Obama as the leader that God set up, but that doesn't mean that we sit down and say nothing while he tears the country apart.
I know where you're coming from, Rebecca, but God set up the Constitution, Obama notwithstanding.
The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not Obama; that is the form of government God gave America, "Lex Rex". Law is king, not man.
Being represented by a body of men held to a very strict set of laws is what makes us a Constitutional Republic.
No respect to a man who would tear down a system of government which God set up, wouldn't you say?
RightKlik- I have had that pointed out to me since my above comments. :) But thanks anyway.
Son- I think that, pertaining to the 'graceful dissent' issue- yelling and namecalling will accomplish nothing. Yelling 'You lie!" at the President does nothing than make you look like an idiot five-year old who can't keep his big yap shut during a presidential speech. Yes, perhaps Obama was fudging. But that does not give us leave to call him names, and depart from common human decency and courtesy.
I totally agree that some of the things Obama has done are inherently unconstitutional and this bill probably does, too. But does that give us leave to treat him in a way that will, instead of making HIM look bad, make us look like a bunch of loonies?!
The way to achieve our goal is not through mindless, senseless namecalling and accusations. It is through earnest, factual debate. Yelling "You lie!" gained nothing fo Congressman Wilson. If instead he had waited for the media to come, he could have voiced his opinion in a much more civilized and open way, and would have gained more.
There is much too much vitriol going on in the political atmosphere nowadays. We don't need more. The way to get our point across is not by lambasting the administration anytime we can. The administration has done some good things. We shouldn't be so eager to jump all over them. It makes us look like bandwagon-jumpers with the intellectual faculties of childish lemmings.
The solution is not through refusing to treat this administration as an administration. They are in power, and they have power. Ignoring them and calling them names will do nothing except make them declare you an irritant and- guess what- ignore you.
I understand that the Constitution is the ultimate law of our land. But throwing temper tantrums is not the way to get us back to the Constitution. The way to do that is by getting the word out there about the Constitution, seeing it multiply, and then kicking these people out come '12. That is the solution, not yelling insults at the President of the United States.
Quiet, peaceful, kind, tactful, graceful discussion is not going to get anything done; the last 250 years of American history shows this.
Unfortunately, calling our congressmen doesn't work anymore, nor "kicking them out" in elections.
Thinking back to the Boston Tea Party, we didn't stand next to the cargo ship with holding signs, quietly, and tactfully, discussing our problems with the English.
It was a rather vitriolic act, as I recall it!
We have reached a point in the course of human events when discussion will only serve to show that the American people don't care enough to act on the Constitution.
Saying "you lie" to a man whose least of many offenses is a lying tongue isn't a "temper tantrum".
Vitriol is an American tradition.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force."
~Patrick Henry
Doesn't sound like the Founders would be pleased with how much we've put up with, only to attack men who call tyrants "liars".
"No respect to a man who would tear down a system of government which God set up, wouldn't you say?"
That would be true, but didn't God put Obama where he is now? (Not to say that I like him, I don't.)
God allowed a man to build and run a gas station; God allowed a robber to hold up that gas station.
Should the man respect the robber because God sent him?
Where in the Bible does it say we should respect executives in government? The only verse I can think of says to pray for them.
Since he has broken the law, Obama is in violation of Romans 13; so is anyone who subverts the Constitution.
God set up the Constitution, and Obama, whom He allowed to hold the office of President, is subverting it.
We should respect him?
God forbid. Pray for him.
Ephesians 6:12
Ok, I was talking to Mom, and she made a comment I thought I'd post here. I told her about the video, and she was like "Well someone needed to yell at him! We should be more like the English Parliament where people can just stand up and scream at each other." :)
Thought that was a good thought. There is a time to sit down and shut up and there is a time to stand up and shout. I think that time is here.
Sorry. :) You can delete my last two comments. :D
No, no! Conversation and controversy is always good! Everyone learns something in such discussion!
Everything on this blog is kept for the record, anyway.
Good point, Rebecca's Mom!
Whether he's Constitutional or not is NOT a "moot" point.
If he violates the Constitution, he is a usurper and a tyrant, and does NOT deserve our respect, or our obedience!! I will respect the office, UNLESS, the man holding it is illegitimately holding it. He has violated the Constitution and has not provided proof that he is a Citizen of These United States! How can you respect that?! Saying that he's lying is not disrespectful or namecalling, but the TRUTH!!! I come from a backround where "diplomacy bows to honesty!" (To quote Bill Mauldin).
And you are calling a lot of names yourself. "idiot five-year old" "bandwagon-jumpers with the intellectual faculties of childish lemmings."
Rebecca, Rebecca's mom, AdamS, RightKlik, CarolineNot, Dr. Paleo Phd., and of course Son3, GREAT WORK!!!! KEEP IT UP!!!!!
Sorry, that comment was to Liberty.
Well, thanks for the comment, Johann, but Liberty is one of my Peeps; I happen to know that she isn't trying to subvert the Constitution or disrespect our country's founders... the last several comments notwithstanding.
(Sorry, Liberty. :D)
I would not that there be contention or strife among my Peeps, so let's remember to be courteous, not curt.
I'm working on a Peeps' Bill of Rights.
(Won't that be fun, Peeps?)
Please pardon me, Liberty and Son3.
I'll be more courteous in the future. Thanks for the rebuke.
BTW, RGM's email doesn't work. I tried twice, and it got bounced back both times. Do you have an alternate address?
Oh, not a rebuke! A simple reminder of friendliness among Peeps.
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